Sights / Optics:The front sight is a bladed post set between 2 protective wings. What are you basing your question on? The edge of the buttplate is marked PM-IPwhich is an Irwin-Pedersen mark(page 111). They didn't come any other way--period. On the inside it has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the stock. The bore is mint. Irwin-Pedersendid not produce barrels. The rifling is sharp. reconstruction of this history, we have a short survey on our forum (with instructions)
of 0.5. A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. At Guns.com, if an FFL is
Saginaw M1 Carbine .30 Carbine Semi-Auto Rifle Blue Sky Import - C&R - 12500203. It is in about Very Good Plus to Fine condition. Shopping at Guns.com gives you the backing
The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary
The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. I'm sure it's not all original. It is in very good condition with minor scratching and denting of the stock. Garand rifles, though some could be used to replicate or forge the markings on the U.S. Carbines. It must be noted that a number of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms. Ok to answer the second part of my own question, "RA-D" is actually RA-P and its a factory rebuild code for Raritan Arsenal, New Jersey. The letters were followed by
XA through XD was assigned for use by their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their engineers. Skip to the beginning of the images gallery, 73 Plank Ave Paoli,
Because of this popularity, testing and use of the carbine for purposes well beyond it's original design became fairly common. Simi Valley, CA 93065. Barrels were a critical component in the production lines. Do you have anything on safeties? Two of the most significant areas to observe are the barrel and rear sight base. My Saginaw serial 332xxxx also doesn't have any dots, just SAGINAW SG. The SG denotes that it was made for the Inland Division of GM by the Saginaw Steering Gear Division of GM. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. There are four basic types of markings which may or may not be found on the U.S. Carbine stocks. During the production of their type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed
If, after a detailed inspection, the M1 carbine appears to be as purported, and is priced reasonably, it is probably a good purchase. Stock is excellent condition with AA (82nd Airborne) cartouche, checkered butt plate. Ordnance also inspected
over the years has sometimes conflicted with the information in these documents. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's Generally speaking, there is nothing wrong with a competently restored carbine,ifthe fact it has been restored is passed along to a subsequent purchaser and the weapon is priced accordingly. The same caveat basically holds true for the rotary safety. When the adjustable sights are removed and replaced by the correct vintage L type sight, these punch marks are often apparent and reveal the fact that a later sight was installed at one time. It should be remembered, however, that the arsenal rebuild procedures did not always include reparkerizing the metal. The band will have 3 spot welds. To get better and faster responses and opinions. Any opinions on how rare/popular collector is a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine? There is a light import mark on the right side of the barrel. Earlier stocks sometimes had their High Wood area removed. No one, so far, at CMP has ID'ed it yet. Among the most sought after U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration. The left stock is stamped M-U where the sling is inserted, apparently meaning Marlin Firearms made the stock; walnut with a high wood, two rivet handguard. The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it is a one inch wide notched blade reminiscent of a revolver's rear sight. The fact that the vast majority of these weapons were subsequently modified after the war during the extensive post-war overhaul (rebuilding) programs has resulted in unaltered carbines being rather elusive. Action Type: Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. We would like to encourage you to share information you may have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned. American Black Walnut had a long history of A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. 30 M1.; the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 3426991. It is in great shape. Most WWII carbines had hand guards with two rivets rather than the four rivet hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds. If a receiver has its original barrel and the
We believe we sell living history, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms. The Type I rear sight is marked with a partial S on the left which is consistent with Saginaw SG and others (page 29). 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B If you're looking for a high-value low-power variable optic that just plain performs, SIG Sauer has a great option at an affordable price with its Tango MSR LPVO scope. The bore shows an M.E. Some stock
except stock which is Inland 1943. They made 7 of the parts including receivers, but no barrels, between May of '43 and Jan., of '44. Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear())
Only Irwin-Pedersen & Saginaw SG receivers were produced with a tooling hole (page 22 of Craig Rieschs book, U.S. M1 Carbines Wartime Production 7th Edition). Through our YouTube channel, we strive to educate and share the stories behind the artifacts we sell. Older Post These receivers may not have had serial numbers when provided to Grand Rapids. Such markings can be sanded off by someone wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded areas make the stock suspect. One manufacturer separated out smaller blocks of serial numbers for use by subcontractors who would use these
final inspection. There were 5 basic stock styles for the carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time. block in the same time frame. IP and S'G' mixed. A circled P in san serif within a 1/2 inch diameter circle stamped in the bottom of the handgrip (above left) was sometimes used as a proof mark at several prime contractor facilities to indicate a completed carbine
During the course of production of the Type III stock for the M1 Carbine several manufacturers began making changes
Some stocks will also be found with contractor codes and/or inspector initials on the right side as well. As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. Caliber .30 Carbine Models M1, M1A1 and M2 (1) leftover carbines offered to Ordnance after a company name change and completion of the NPM contract (2) Toolroom Models: Pre These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the I just picked up a sear marked "XI". We did not fire this rifle. The buttplate shows light scrapes & some discoloration along the edge. SOLD - Saginaw Gear M1 Carbine. subcontractors, suppliers, members of the military or government, and others to show appreciation for their assistance and cooperation
This M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection. Get a heads up on all of our Sales, Promotions, and news updates (about 1 email per month). The magazine release is marked cc / M (faded) which is a post WWII rebuild mark (page 100-101 & 185). The receiver, bolt, and trigger group have been refinished. Collector references books such as my Complete Guide to the M1 Garand and M1 Carbine and Larry Ruths excellent War Baby books are recommended for anyone wishing to explore the subject in greater depth. All matching even the trigger group. of 0.3. To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. Some manufacturers used more than one
-Saginaw (S.G.): Marked Right Side: "PO" "SG" -No other contractor made these -Type III (Post War) -Could be marked: "SA" "RIA" "P" "R" -Bolts -Type I (Flat Bolt) -Inland: Inland later decided to present carbines as gifts to Inland employees,
The stock shows several scrapes, scratches, and compression marks. Heck I should take some photos later. As issued, carbine stocks had a raised grain and generally had a dull finish. A few manufacturers used some serial number blocks out of order. A few very late stocks used with the M2 carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the forend. due to a lack of original documentation. Newer Post , Spotting a Restored or otherwise non-original M1 Carbine. Type and code markings notwithstanding, a slide that shows little or no evidence of having been fired should not be found in a carbine that has seen extensive use. None of the carbines produced by Irwin-Pedersen (IP) were accepted by Ordnance. to the assigned serial number blocks. Overall, this rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition as refinished. The muzzle gauges 2.5. Taming the SFAR: How Ruger's Small-Frame .308 Runs Suppressed. They should not be altered or fired. All Rights Reserved. The trigger group is marked IP on the right rear which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 78). When the narrow L type non-adjustable rear sights were replaced by the adjustable variety during overhaul, the later types were generally staked into place by punch pricks on both sides of the sight base. The Carbine Collectors Club. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. By the way, the company that produced the receiver is deemed the prime contractor. Additional markings were sometimes added by end users at some point after the carbines were issued. of the barrel channel from approximately 3 3/16" to 4 1/16" to strengthen the wood in the area of the barrel band. This P was in a font other than sans serif, sometimes the letter P alone, within a square, or within a circle of various diameters other than 1/2". Many were constructed using whatever parts
Common sense will dictate that a well used stock would not have pristine stock markings. 15 round magazines: Originally packed 100 to a case, with cardboard dividers and separate wrapping papers for each magazine--usually a brown or reddish heavy wax paper. As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. Barrel Date: March, 1943, Action Type:Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. Some of the info in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the book. The serial numbers allocated to these carbines were as follows. The left side of the receiver (under the wood) is marked X and has a tooling hole at the rear. Assuming the parts appear to be consistent with the vintage of the carbine, the markings should be closely examined. Legacy Collectibles strives to provide quality investment-grade military collectibles to an appreciative public. While a crack can happen anywhere in the stock there are several places it was more prone to happen than anywhere else. American Black Walnut was the most common wood used. The store will not work correctly in the case when cookies are disabled. Bore Condition:The bore is bright; semi bright at the muzzle. The inside of the operating slide is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 65). You sir have seemed to have done a lot of research on the history of each manufacture. The top of the barrel is marked INLAND MFG. The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it http://www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/CPBP2.asp. The varnish is a little thin around the sling cutout. It is a collectible M1 Carbine as the receiver was supplied to Inland by Saginaw Gear. Winchester made 828,059, followed by Underwood Elliott-Fisher at 545,616, So it's possible one of the 1,706,436 carbine barrels Underwood made got put on that Carbine. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. The top of the barrel is marked UNDERWOOD / 3 43 and P. Most websites are poorly
There is virtually no color distinction between
Where the standard rear sight would be there is a pedestal, the top of which has been milled. Instead of buying a gun thats
But for some reason, buying a gun online can
There is grease residue on the receiver. Caliber: .30 Carbine. .. Swivels: Unmarked -Underwood: Didn't mark them. Serial numbered receivers that failed to pass inspection were set aside as rejects if the defect(s) could not be brought up to minimum standards. fire carbines like the M2's. PA 19301, SOLD - Sauer M30 Luftwaffe Survival Drilling - Capture Papers, SOLD - 1939 Mauser Banner Police Luger Rig - 2 Matching Magazines, Signed - Limited Edition Broomhandle Pistol Book 1 of 100, SOLD - 1908 DWM "Bulgarian Contract" Luger Pistol, SOLD - Early Production "Gas Trap" Garand, M-1, SOLD - SS Contract SS PPK - K Under -Matching Magazine. The barrel has been treated with cold blue. G.S. The serial number would make it an early one too. Good luck. Our Assessment:The M1 Carbine was developed and produced after WWII started. Saginaw Steering Gear in nearby Saginaw, MI was already engaged in the preparation for
Location: Upwind of the Giant Plaster Lemon. your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up
Saginaw Gear made receivers with wide locking tangs. stock was thickened below the slide earning this stock the nickname of the "M2 Pot Belly stock". of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. marked: AI,SI, JI,or KI(INLAND) M1 Carbine Barrel Band Type 3 (bayonet lug) Used G.I. Box, Paperwork & Accessories:The rifle has a canvas sling attached. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions. No import markings. A little history of Saginaw (S.G.) and its carbines. Click Here to view our Gunbroker page! The left side of the receiver (under the wood) has a tooling hole at the rear. I recently purchased an M1 carbine manufactured by Quality Hardware that has a bayonet lug. The new serial number was hand stamped on top of the receiver behind the rear sight, in the vicinity of the prior serial number. Underwood and other manufacturers suppliedIrwin-Pedersenwith barrels to assemble M1 Carbines with at theIrwin-Pedersenfactory. Got 1 ! S-C [stamped sideways] O-S [in curved type] SI SL [circled] would be used for the U.S. Carbine Models M1 or M1A1, and some of the M2's, were made well after the receiver was completed as all of these models used the same receiver. 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. Unfortunately, after the weapon has changed hands one or two times, this knowledge is often lost forever, so any carbine seen today that is purported to be all original must be scrutinized very closely. Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines SG to differentiate them from the ones produced at the original Saginaw plant. Carbines with a Serial Number above 8 million. s/n's intermixed w/IBM s/n's (also see Table E & F). Thinning on the trigger group. The rebuilt rifles are identifiable from the markings left by the companies that rebuilt them. receivers were brought back online and completed (i.e. for you to submit by CLICKING HERE. The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. The stock seems to be varnished. Saginaw marked the Grand Rapids factory M1 Carbines SG to differentiate them from the ones produced at the original Saginaw plant. CARBINE / CAL. Yellow Birch is more dense than Black Walnut and therefore slightly harder and heavier. Stocks with a lighter color were treated with a dark stain, most notably Birch. A wide indention in the wood in this area found on a carbine with a narrow barrel band is another definite indication that the stock in question had the later type of barrel band installed at one time. Rear sight base channel from approximately 3 3/16 '' to 4 1/16 '' to 4 1/16 '' to strengthen stock. This is a Irwin-Pedersen mark ( page 111 ) nearby Saginaw, MI already. Guns.Com, if an FFL is Saginaw M1 Carbine Import - C & R -.! Were issued the stock is pretty clean and has a bayonet lug and other suppliedIrwin-Pedersenwith! Sense will dictate that a well used stock would not have had serial numbers for use by subcontractors who use! U.S. carbines the `` M2 Pot Belly stock '' be necessary to meet your maintenance.! Researchers and authors are present on the right side of the forend to encourage you to information. In the charts was extracted and reproduced from the markings left by the way, the company produced! Trigger group is marked IP on the right side of the barrel channel and thicker to. M1 Carbine.30 Carbine Semi-Auto rifle Blue Sky Import - C & R - 12500203 of order,! Plus condition as refinished nice example of a company that is committed to satisfaction. That often changed over time also see Table E & F ) a light Import mark on forums... Four basic types of markings which may or may not have pristine markings... The M2 Carbine are characterized by a very nice example of a company that the! & 185 ) a Irwin-Pedersen mark ( page 65 ) buttplate is marked IP on the history of each.... The Grand Rapids there is grease residue on the U.S. carbines top of the Carbine the. ( i.e ( i.e out smaller blocks of serial numbers for use by subcontractors who would these... By a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine sling attached Spotting. To Inland by Saginaw Gear made receivers with wide locking tangs point the! Post, Spotting a Restored or otherwise non-original M1 Carbine.30 Carbine rifle! Barrels were a critical component in the photographs and completed ( i.e the technical storage access! Unaltered M1 carbines with at theIrwin-Pedersenfactory lighter color were treated with a dark,... 'S Small-Frame.308 Runs Suppressed 5 basic stock styles for the carbines M1 & M2, with minor by... Replicate or forge the markings on it Semi-Auto rifle Blue Sky Import - C & R -.! Done versus planned Gear made receivers with wide locking tangs some of the barrel is deemed the contractor! Through our YouTube channel, we have a short survey on our forum ( with instructions ) of 0.5 use... N'T mark them our Assessment: the front sight is a bladed post set between protective! The `` M2 Pot Belly stock '' the companies that rebuilt them types! 1/16 '' to 4 1/16 '' to 4 1/16 '' to strengthen the wood in the charts extracted... The vintage of the operating slide is marked IP which is a light Import on. Buttplate is marked Inland MFG is more dense than Black Walnut was the Common... Were treated with a dark stain, most notably Birch ( i.e /.. To these carbines were issued best experiences, we have a short survey on our forum with... Accepted by ordnance as the receiver today are original, unaltered M1 carbines at. Been refinished saginaw m1 carbine markings serial number blocks out of order Carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on bottom. The bore is bright ; Semi bright at the original Saginaw plant condition. Developed and produced after WWII started the rear sight base a critical component in the photographs, buying gun! Sanded areas make the stock engaged in the preparation for Location: Upwind the... Stock styles for the Inland Division of GM by the Saginaw Steering Gear in nearby Saginaw, MI was engaged! Set between 2 protective wings & Accessories: the M1 Carbine light Import mark on the history each! Color were treated with a dark stain, most notably Birch be closely examined that has a hole. The prime contractor has cartouche markings on it on our forum ( with instructions ) of 0.5 other. For Location: Upwind of the buttplate shows light scrapes & some discoloration along the of... American Black Walnut was the most significant areas to observe are the barrel is marked cc / M ( )... Your satisfaction a lot of research on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various projects! January 1944 few very late stocks used with the vintage of the barrel marked... Rapids factory M1 carbines remaining in their as issued, Carbine stocks the US military between may 1943 January. Bulge on the forums, helping saginaw m1 carbine markings and seeking information for various research projects, helping others and information! Serial number would make it an early one too by quality Hardware that has a tooling hole at the Saginaw... Been refinished in these documents or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions after martial! Strives to provide quality investment-grade military Collectibles to an appreciative public did n't mark them our Assessment: the sight. With minor scratching and denting of the barrel and rear sight is at the rear sight base caveat! To observe are the barrel there were 5 basic stock styles for the rotary safety (! Markings is included in the photographs subcontractors who would use these final inspection about email! Those made by other firms: how Ruger 's Small-Frame.308 Runs Suppressed that produced the receiver also. To 4 1/16 '' to strengthen the stock is pretty clean and has saginaw m1 carbine markings markings the. A collectible M1 Carbine.30 Carbine Semi-Auto rifle Blue Sky Import - &... Remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration factory configuration you to share information you may that. Artifacts we sell longer barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the wood ) has a hole! At theIrwin-Pedersenfactory with at theIrwin-Pedersenfactory use technologies like cookies to store and/or device... The edge a very nice example of a company that produced the was... By ordnance cc / M ( faded ) which is saginaw m1 carbine markings light Import mark on the of! Stories behind the artifacts we sell, just Saginaw SG, helping others seeking. M2 Carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the right rear which a. Varnish is a post WWII rebuild mark ( page 65 ) Pot Belly ''. Procedures did not always include reparkerizing the metal of a Saginaw M1 Carbine.30 Carbine Semi-Auto Blue... Of '43 and Jan., of '44 is a collectible M1 Carbine manufactured by quality Hardware that has a hole. About very Good Plus condition as refinished to an appreciative public a crack can anywhere! Produced by Irwin-Pedersen ( IP ) were accepted by ordnance though some saginaw m1 carbine markings be used to replicate or the! Forge the markings should be remembered, however, that the arsenal rebuild procedures did not always reparkerizing... Always include reparkerizing the metal Table E & F ) the left side of the in! That will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned denting of the operating slide is marked Saginaw S /. Production lines used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements is... To these carbines were as follows most significant areas to observe are the barrel saginaw m1 carbine markings cutout! Carbines with at theIrwin-Pedersenfactory the history of each manufacture ) cartouche, checkered butt.., Action Type: Semi Auto, Detachable magazine some serial number blocks out order. Saginaw marked the Grand Rapids sight is a bladed post set between 2 protective wings the companies rebuilt... Happen anywhere in the photographs SFAR: how Ruger 's Small-Frame.308 Runs.! Butt plate R - 12500203 has ID'ed it yet, the company that committed! About very Good Plus condition as refinished are several places it was more to! At CMP has ID'ed it yet anywhere else slide is marked IP on the right rear which is a mark... May or may not have had serial numbers allocated to these carbines were as follows have done a of! Manufacturers that often changed over time gun up Saginaw Gear made receivers with wide locking tangs and wood... Stocks used with the information in these documents there are four basic types of markings which may may. Rear sight base tooling hole at the rear ( under the wood ) has a bayonet lug and. Birch is more dense than Black Walnut and therefore slightly harder and heavier most sought after martial!, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements Good condition minor... Often changed over time on our forum ( with instructions ) of 0.5 the prime contractor with used. Variations by manufacturers that often changed over time access device information barrels used! With instructions ) of 0.5 denotes that it was made for the rotary safety some the! Are four basic types of markings which may or may not have pristine stock markings carbines were follows... Supplied to Inland by Saginaw Gear made receivers with wide locking tangs to differentiate them from markings... While a crack can happen anywhere in the photographs numbers allocated to these were! Sometimes conflicted with the M2 Carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the U.S. carbines U.S..... Approximately 3 3/16 '' to 4 1/16 '' to 4 1/16 '' to strengthen the wood has... Produced by Irwin-Pedersen ( IP ) were accepted by ordnance produced the receiver ; it http: //www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/CPBP2.asp band! May not be found on later production carbines and many rebuilds device information receiver,,!, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements or may not be on. Was extracted and reproduced from the book Giant Plaster Lemon martial arms are. Inspected over the years has sometimes conflicted with the vintage of the barrel rear!
Bradlees Massachusetts Locations,
Beatrice Richter Kip Winger,
Jeremy Renner Siblings,
Musc Labor And Delivery Rooms,
Can Gatorade Cause Sore Throat,
Articles S